EXPLORING WEB3 001
tYLER cAFFEY - Head of Growth & community @BULLIEVERSE
Watch: Youtube
On this episode of Exploring Web3, we chat with Tyler, also known as Nftcaff, the Head of Growth & Community at Bullieverse, a Web 3 gaming metaverse and game studio. Tyler shares his journey of how he got into the NFT space and eventually landed his dream job. We discuss the importance of offering value before asking for something and the philosophy of giving to get. Tyler also shares insights on communication skills, the use of discord and Twitter in Web Three, and the importance of knowing multiple languages. Furthermore, we explore the challenges of working in a team with members spread across the globe and how to overcome them. Tyler also talks about his role in leading growth strategies at Believers and the recent release of their first game, The Bear Hunt. Tune in for some great tips on how to get your first job in the crypto space!
Tyler Caffey & Bullieverse
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timestamps
[00:00:52] Tyler is head of community at Believers, a Web Three gaming metaverse and game studio, with successful NFT sales and released games.
[00:04:45] Dad had SNES, I love Pokemon Yellow.
[00:07:27] Lifeguard turned insurance broker turned cco.
[00:10:32] Lost soccer dream, advised college students.
[00:15:08] Talking to someone helps with problems.
[00:19:12] Confronting fears and simplifying complex information.
[00:25:00] "NFT lover becomes community leader, takes risk."
[00:30:52] Diverse team, ongoing process, rewarding experience.
[00:35:05] Web Three requires communication and flexibility.
[00:37:45] Learn Discord, social media, blockchain, languages.
[00:43:22] Writing concise is essential for good grades.
[00:44:48] Top picks: Gary and Dave Portnoy.
[00:48:07] "Get involved, show value, offer solutions."
[00:52:30] Giving is key, funny LinkedIn job pitch.
[00:56:20] Bullieverse releases holiday landscape feature.
transcript
Devin
We have Tyler, who's been part of the team at Bullieverse. I'd love for you, Tyler, to just give us what you do there and kind of what's it about.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, of course. Thanks again for having me, Devin. We go back a little bit, so it's nice to get on here with you guys. So I'll introduce myself. My name is Tyler. Some people know me as Nftcaf in the Web Three space. This bull head that is on my head is my NFT PFP that everybody knows me by. So when I join meetings now, I come on with this so nobody has to see my real face. It's not that I'm a non, it's just what it is. I love that at Believers, I'm the head of our community and now also leading growth strategies as well. Believers is a Web Three gaming metaverse and game studio. So we're building a variety of games across a number of different genres. We started back in August of well, the company started in May of 2021. Our first kind of action in the space was our inaugural NFT sale in August of 2021, where we sold out in 10 hours, which was amazing. It was quite a time back then. It doesn't seem too far ago, but in Web Three terms, it was eons ago, it seems. But yeah, so we started back then. We released our first game in late April of this year, and that was called The Bear Hunt, which was a single player game. And now we're on game number two, which is, in my opinion, a lot better than game number one, so we're moving in the right direction. And it's called Necro Demic. It's a zombie wave based horde, third person shooter on Unreal Engine Four, soon to be ported over to Unreal Engine Five, which we're very excited for. And it's currently PC and Mac based and potentially some Alpha. Potentially, it could end up being mobile based as well. We'll see. But it's a little sprinkle of alpha. I don't know if I was supposed to say that, but we'll see.
Devin
I've known the Bulieverse team, you, Tyler, and everyone else for a while. I know beyond what you talked about, you have other things in the works that are going to be just exciting, if not more, once Necrodemic comes out. So really excited for that. But yeah, I guess like I've mentioned, and like, you probably know already, if you're listening. The goal here is really to really shine a light on people who have core roles in Web Three and what they did to get there. So I'm thinking, Tyler, maybe we'll talk about kind of how you got to your role now and how's everything going. But before we get there, maybe we need to start a little bit earlier. So maybe just to help the audience understand you a little more get a little more personal. If you're cool with it.
Tyler Caffey
Absolutely.
Devin
Who were you in high school? Maybe that's what we can get.
Tyler Caffey
Who's was I in high school. Jeez, man.
Devin
We're not going to stay here for a while. I just want to get a sense.
Tyler Caffey
No, I guess in high school I had a good time. In high school, I was an athlete. I played a bunch of sports. I played soccer, I played basketball. Was always a big gamer. So I was like kind of that hybrid. Was friends with the nerdy folks, was friends with the athletes. I was kind of friends with a lot of people. So that was really me. Yeah, I always loved sports, always loved playing games.
Devin
While we're on the topic, what got you into gaming? My story was in the very beginning, nintendo 64 was how I got into it, but it was kind of like off and on. But in middle school, late middle school, like PlayStation Live, xbox Live came out and playing like Call of Duty with my friends, like Modern Warfare One. And those type of games really made me a gamer.
Tyler Caffey
What about you? Yeah, those are all great games. And for me, I haven't really thought about this before. I'm trying to think back. I would have to guess. I don't remember my dad being a huge gamer. I think he had the original super Nintendo, and I think I would watch him play like Duck Hunt on super Nintendo. That's awesome. But the first game I remember playing and that I fell in love with, that I still love today, was Pokemon Yellow version on Game Boy. So I remember sitting in my mom's car, driving wherever, playing Pokemon all the time. So I definitely loved playing Game Boy and Pokemon. I had a Mario game on there. But yeah, that was like my first exposure. And then I had the N 64 Zelda Ocarina of Time, one of the best games ever. Loved that Smash, of course, GameCube. Then came GameCube, and then came like, Xbox for me. So now the games that I play outside of Necro Demic, of course, Warzone. I still like War Zone a lot. And FIFA. Those are basically the only two other games I play.
Devin
Cool. Yeah. So definitely team games. And I'm sure what you guys are building at Bully versus going to be the same.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, like I said before, actually, I don't know if I said yeah, I think I said this. Yeah, we're going to build games in a variety of genres because, like, for instance, FIFA War Zone couldn't be maybe more polar opposite. There's just a ton of really great games and cool gamers out there that just like different things. And so we want to try and build an ecosystem of games that can appeal to everybody, and it's really hard to do that with just one game. So we'll be building a bunch of different games. We'll be taking direction from the community on what they want, what kind of games they want to see, and really looking forward to doing that.
Devin
I love that, and I think that's a kind of segue into kind of the progression, just like we're I'm sure later in the call going to talk about the progression of the project that you're at now, kind of like, now that we know kind of who you were in the beginning, kind of getting a sense for. Okay, now what did the beginning look like in your working career? Right. Right now it seems like your interests and what you're doing for a career are kind of, like, intersecting both, kind of having a core at gaming. But whenever you first got started, I don't know if it makes sense, but I kind of want to take the story in this direction. What was kind of like your first job or maybe your first most important job that you think really shaped you into kind of where you are today?
Tyler Caffey1
Yeah. So I have a very bizarre roadmap of how I got here. It has not been a straight line for me whatsoever. My first job was when I was 16. I was a lifeguard. I was a lifeguard until I was, like, 21 or 22 at a couple of pools in the area. I played goalie. When I played soccer, I've always found myself being in, like, when I played basketball, I sucked at offense. I could barely even dribble. But I was really good at defense, so I've always found myself good at protecting things, I guess. And so I ended up going to a small school in PA to play soccer. Didn't work out for me there. And I transferred to another school and started studying risk management and insurance, which sounds awful and boring, but for me it was kind of interesting. So I ended up graduating with a degree in risk and went on to work for one of the largest corporate insurance brokerages in the United States and in the world. They're based out of Daytona Beach, Florida. So right after school, moved down from Philly to Daytona Beach, and I was an insurance broker for six years. Five years. An insurance broker for five years. In January of this year, I quit that job. And, yeah, now I'm doing this. Now I'm wearing a bullhead.
Devin
Okay, that's awesome. Yeah. I love how you started this out with, like, the road was not a straight one. You kind of went everywhere and kind of how you got to where you are now, and I'm the same much like where you are. You said you got a degree in risk management. What I do now probably is an exemplary of what an education like that actually does. Much like me, my education was like, I got your degree in biochemistry. I thought I wanted to be in the field and kind of going in that direction. But once we got to the end of the road and it was time for me to graduate, I was like, Nah, I actually don't think this is for me. So I think life has a way of kind of giving you that, but it's all about the experiences that help you understand who you are whenever you're.
Tyler Caffey
In that time 100%. Yeah, it's like a lot of the experiences weren't positive at all, but definitely shaped who I am now. I don't think, looking back, I would be in this position, which I love, if I didn't go through some of those roadblocks. Sometimes you see them, like the roadblocks in the way and the bumps in the road as being super negative. But for me, at least, it's brought me here and super happy with what I'm doing.
Devin
And whenever you kind of talk about the obstacles in the road, that really helped you get to where you are today. Was that the job that you just talked about before you got into Bullyverse? Let's get into that. Or was it maybe in college or something?
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, it was a little bit of both. I was big time soccer. Not big time, but I was like a big soccer guy. I was good. I wasn't great, but I was good. And I was good enough to play in college, and it just didn't end up working out for me. And that was like a huge shot to my ego, was a huge shot to a lot of things. It was like my dreams, and I was changing things. And looking back, there's some times where I still wish I would have pursued soccer instead of just kind of giving up on it. But I ended up getting a lot of concussions. That's obviously not a good thing. And once you get one, it's easier to get them again. And I ended up getting a couple, and I was like, I got to hang it up, so I don't even play anymore. Which sucks because I love soccer so much. But yeah, I actually used to give speeches at the school I went to that I ended up transferring into because I ended up being an advisor to students that didn't know what they wanted to do in college and were considered it by the university to be high risk of dropping out because they couldn't find their place. So I had this weird role of kind of trying to nudge and steer students and help them discover what they wanted to do, but I wasn't allowed to ever recommend anything. I wasn't really allowed to be like, based off what you're telling me, Devin, I think that you would be really suited for engineering. And so I would start off giving a speech at every I forget what was called, like, convocation or whatever it was called that first meeting when you're in college of every semester to the incoming freshmen that didn't have majors picked out yet. And I would tell them my story about how I went to go play college and after soccer and college, and after two weeks there, I unenrolled from the university and called my parents and was like, hey, I just dropped out. Come pick me up. And so I kind of gave them this story, and then I got to Temple, and I changed my major twice within the first week, and my parents were like, Dude, you got to get it together. And so I kind of painted this picture that if it was that bumpy for me and there was all that turbulence and that many things, and I still ended up being okay, that the chances of you going through something like that difficult are probably a lot lower, so you'll end up being fine. So I did that for a while, and it kind of gave me a lot of motivation to keep doing and trying new things and take those leaps, because, to be honest with you, quitting my last job was incredibly scary for me. It was the only real job I had after college. It's the same company. I was there for five years, and it was a huge risk for me. And, yeah, it was a big leap, but I'm really happy I did it. And I think maybe the person I was when I was younger wouldn't have done it, but things that I learned at my past job of being in sales and having to be confrontational and having to take risks in sales helped me honestly be able to make the decision to leave that job.
Devin
That's awesome. Yeah, I definitely want to get to kind of like the job in sales, but I feel like it would be I almost have to go into this role you talked about in college or maybe college where you were talking to kids who didn't have their majors picked out yet. I don't think all of our listeners would be in a situation where that would be relevant, but I do think a majority actually would be, especially how I got into crypto and how I got into kind of my first businesses I started after college. It was after going in a completely different direction for pretty much most of my career path or most of my college life where I thought I'd be going. So what I'd love to know here is it sounds like you definitely gave a speech at the beginning of the semester, but were there I'm sure with that comes a lot of one on ones that you have with students too. I'd love to kind of ask, what was the core thread, what was the common denominator that really helped what you found? Students really get to a decision or at least get closer to heading in the direction that they thought was right for them.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, I think it's kind of when you're sitting there and first of all, just talking about any problem you have with somebody helps. So if you have a problem, go talk to somebody about it, whether it's I don't know what my major is or literally anything. You're not feeling good about yourself, or you're worried about a situation or financially you're worried about, go talk to somebody. Keeping your problems bottled up and going back and forth in your own brain with what could possibly happen, you're going to think of a million different scenarios. Your brain is probably going to give you all the negative ones. You're going to drive yourself nuts. So going and talking to somebody is the first step, I think, to helping a lot of issues, and a lot of people are afraid to do that because they don't want to seem vulnerable or they don't want to seem like I'm not good enough or it's embarrassing that I have to go ask for help. Getting help with things is fine. So I think that's the first step is really just going out and talking to somebody. But that was kind of the hard thing was getting people to join and to seek the help. So that's why I kind of would go and have those speeches at the beginning of the year, because it was just like complete comic relief for these kids. It cannot be this bad. This guy went through it, so it can't be this bad. Then I was a student too, so I'd see these other students out and about. I'd see them at the library. So it wasn't like they were going and talking to an adult, an advisor, like a therapist or something. It was just like it was like a friend almost.
Devin
That's awesome. I think I kind of suffer from the same thing, and I can almost relate to it in a business sense. Oftentimes, especially earlier on, if you're faced with a problem, my default mode network or the way that my brain works is like, okay, I'll research it, I'll look for something. I'll try to figure this out myself, because that's kind of where I think my strength comes from. But you're almost cutting yourself short because if you can talk to someone who has gone through something like this before or has done this thing that you've never done before in business, it's almost like a shortcut in a good sense. You're almost able to download the life experience of someone else into your own, I guess, computer, you could say, to figure out how to handle it in the situation that you're in. So it's always helpful. Being vulnerable, I think, is a part of that, but I think that's just part of the human condition, and it's not like, for sure every time you reach out, I think you'll be often surprised with how much people are willing to support people that are going through things that they have to.
Tyler Caffey
100%. Yeah, everybody's going through something. And this might sound crazier, but talking to yourself and talking out loud, getting out of your own head, literally. And sometimes I'll sit there and I'll just say something out loud, and then I'll be like, that's perfect. Or if I say it out loud, I'm like, that sounds ridiculous. So it's like, why would I be afraid of that? It sounds insane, you know what I mean? So even talking to yourself, maybe do it in a quiet space, but I find that can help as well.
Devin
100%. Yeah, I think that was huge, and it's going to be super valuable going on to, I guess, the place where you spent most of your time before you got in with Bullyverse. It sounds like you were, from what I understand, an insurance broker, definitely sales heavy and was, like, directly applying what you learned in college before you really took the Pivot. So explain to me kind of what you learned from that stage in your life and what you've taken with you into this new role.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, the biggest thing that I learned from well, I guess there's two. One is being confrontational. Like, I remember I had to cold call when I first started, and I remember when I was shadowing some of the other guys just in my own head, being petrified of the idea to cold call. I just was I was like, I know I got to do this, but I am afraid. And so you're in a room with they would put us in these little pits with, like, four people just dialing. And I just remember shaking as I was dialing the first phone number, and then it just got easier after I did one, I was like, that wasn't too bad. And then it was just complete fear that I fabricated in my own mind, just learning how to do that. I'm telling you, I was really nervous to do that. So conquering that was big for me. And then there was a lot of things after that where I was like, dude, you've come across some of these roadblocks and things that you think you're afraid of, just do it. Just show up. Just do it. You'll be fine. And so that was big. And just becoming more confrontational on the phone and learning basic sales skills like that were really important. And then I forget where I was going with the next one. But yeah, if I think of it, I'll bring it up. But that one was definitely huge for me, was just getting over that initial fear of trying something new and then also just the basic sales. Oh, I remember. I got it. I got it. Learning how to articulate something that is very important but very complex to somebody who just wants the nitty gritty. But you have to dilute that information, make sure that they know that you understand it without reading them. The whole encyclopedia of insurance. I like doing that because it was a very competitive industry, but there was a lot of relationship selling going on. Like, there's the guy at the country club who's the insurance broker, and he golfs with all of the business owners, and that's who they do their insurance with, and that's why they do insurance with them. And that's what they taught us to sell against. And it was crazy. One of my biggest mentors in the company, he had this saying that I still love. And it was, in the land of the blind, a one eyed man is king. So he basically was saying, this product is so complex and girls outselling it, hardly know anything about it, which is kind of scary. But he's like, if you can just show them that you know what you're talking about, you'll defeat that basic knowledge and you'll defeat those bank or golf club relationships.
Devin
And I totally been with you in terms of the cold calling. So totally gets kind of the fears that come with that. But another, I think, thread that I want to pull on, based on what you said, was really I think it was really cool in that you started with the fear of kind of getting to the sales position and kind of branching out to these people you've never heard of, but you almost ended it with what it sounds like. One of the most memorable times of that job was really bringing it to its core. And instead of being like this cold, call thing that you fear, it's almost like a type of job where you get to build relationships. And those relationships that get built are really where the value and obviously what you're selling comes from, but also probably the enjoyment, the fulfillment of what you do.
Tyler Caffey
Also, yeah, it was building relationships through not necessarily being the most salesy sales guy in the room, because I never was and I never will be. It's not who I am. But I was able to have some success just by kind of leaning on the past. Experiences that I had back when I was an advisor in college is just having conversations with people, building a relationship that way, and just kind of teaching them without teaching them a little bit of knowledge and kind of cattle prodding them, no pun intended. India in the right way, right direction.
Devin
That's awesome and cool. So I think what's really cool here is I thought originally that this was a complete pivot going from your job as an insurance broker to what you're doing now at Bulliverse. But what's so interesting is the way that you positioned it, it actually isn't that much of a Pivot, because where we ended off on that is you building relationships in a more one to one sense, what you're doing more around the community. And the growth of Bullyverse is a little bit different in that you're building relationships at scale. But I'm sure the skills that you learned along the way actually definitely pan out and is definitely still crucial into what you're doing.
Tyler Caffey
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's kind of how I found and got into what I'm doing, because those skills, of course, translated over, and that was a skill that believers was looking for at the time that they didn't necessarily have, I guess. Do you want to talk about how that all happened?
Devin
Yeah, I'd love to kind of see how you got into it. So now that we're kind of going stage by stage, how did this Pivot actually happen? Did you meet with Shrini and Arune? How did that work? The whole thing?
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, so it was crazy. This was before Arune got there as well. So this was shortly after the mint. So we're talking August 2021. Arune and I joined it about the same time. So I remember I was like, getting into NFTs. I missed Board Apes, of course, but I got into Zedrun early in early 2021, I got into Zedrun, and I loved that. So I was playing around with NFT, and I was the NFT guy in my friend group that was like, yeah, this stuff could be big. This is cool. And I remember there was a website called NFT Catcher, and it was a calendar of NFT upcoming mints. And back then, there was only like five or ten a week, so you could really dive in and research and be like, who's on this team? What's the art look like? And then maybe not so today, but six months ago during the bull run, when everybody on Earth was looking at NFDS, there was like, 100 mints a day, so you couldn't really do all of that. So I found citizens of believer island believers. And this was cool. So I minted like, eight or nine of them and then kind of just sat on them. And I popped back into the discord one day. A couple of weeks after, I was like, I kind of forgot about these. I wonder what these things are doing. And there was just some stuff going on in the discord, and I was helping the team, and Sereni like, hey, I think you should do this communications wise and this and that. And they were like, hey, those are really great ideas. Do you want to help us? And I was like, okay, sure. So I thought I was just going to be like, do this unpaid volunteer? He's like, yeah, no, we'll pay you. And I was like, okay, cool. And then it turned out being a lot more work than I thought it was going to be, so it kind of made sense. But yeah, so I went from just a mentor and community member to leading the community, and I was doing that while I was doing my other job, so I'd be like insurance broker by day, leading the believers heard at night, and it was crazy and it was a lot, and it was fun. And I started doing these events and I started doing the live streams and doing different things, and then I kind of just kept finding myself falling so much more in love with what I was doing at believers than what I was doing at my other job. And it just seemed like a good time to make a move, and it was a big risk because of COVID and everything, and the economy wasn't great. And I'm like, do I want to leave somewhere that I've been for five years when the economy might not? And I was like, you know what? I'm 26 years old. We'll see what happens, we'll be fine. So I quit my job, then I was just doing the community, leading the community for the first, I don't know, I would say six and a half months. And over the summer, I started doing a lot of the growth as well. So moving up, and it's been a wild journey, but, yeah, I really started from just minting an NFT project, literally, to being a core team member in the company.
Devin
That's so crazy. And what's even more crazy is in every other industry, this is like, unheard of, but this story has been told many, many times in crypto. It really is something that I feel like this industry is something unique about it, to be so different than anything else. I feel like it draws people together, and the advocates, the early adopters, the people that are really in for it, I think shine out above the rest. And things like this, like what you just talked about happen. So I think that's amazing in terms of just being a part of the community and then that being just so, I guess you could say, so integrated into the community, leading to further opportunities.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, and you're exactly right. It really is like a revelation or coming to fruition of the deep roots of Web three, which is like, community and empowering the people and giving everybody an opportunity. So it's really at the essence and the core of Web three kind of my story, which is awesome, and it's something that the believers team believes in. If we can hire from within the community, then we want to. I mean, it's not always possible. You have a pretty small pool to choose from, but there's a lot of talented people that are in our community. And when you have the passion for the project, and that's something that a startup absolutely needs, because that's what we are. You need that passion because it's not a nine. To five. It's a build or don't build, it's a do or don't. So to have that passion for the project already before joining on isn't a prerequisite, but it certainly helps just because you kind of bleed believers, you're a believer already in the company, so having that is great. And we've hired other people. The head of our gaming team is from our community, so there's a lot of things, a lot of people that we've hired from the communities, and it's worked out pretty well.
Devin
One place we can shift gears to is almost to what is the day to day look like in your role for believers? What does that entail? And kind of, where is it going?
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, the day to day, it's great. It's always different, so it's fresh. I guess I could talk a little bit about the team. So we're based all over the world, which has its pros and cons. It's very cool to be working with people of all different backgrounds, with different stories. It's really amazing. And everybody on the team is great. I remember being back in the office and there's always a couple of people in the office and you're like, yeah, you see them, you're getting coffee. And I love everybody on our team, so that's a huge positive. But half of our team, I would say 60%, sits in India around the Bangalore area, I'm fairly certain, so that's nine and a half hours ahead of me. The next 20% 30% sits in Europe and the UK. And then there's me and Moen, who leads our gaming team, or the two us guys. So we're spread across the map, which is good because so is our community and so is the world, obviously, so it's a good thing. But it's interesting because basically my day starts at about 730. Usually have a meeting, depending on the day, to kick off the day with some members of my team or the leadership team. And yeah, we just kind of know what we have to do and everybody's pretty responsible for their tasks. And then throughout the day there's just things that come up, there's new ideas that pop up and it's kind of like an ongoing there's not really days, it's kind of just like an ongoing machine. So I don't look at it like on Wednesdays I know I do this, this and that, except for Tuesdays and Thursdays, because on Tuesdays we stream our game at 08:00 p.m. My time, and then on Thursdays we stream it at 02:00 p.m. My time. So we try and hit as many time zones as we can because our community is so diverse. But yeah, it's a lot of free flow, it's a lot of just me knowing what I have to get done and accomplishing those tasks. And then just us in the core team towards the top. We're just talking all day long, all day. And so it'll be twelve at night for me, midnight and I'll get a message from Morale, who's our COO, and he's in India and he's just starting his day, which is a day ahead of me, so he's just starting his day. Mine, I should be asleep, but I'm not yet. And it's a grind, but I enjoy it. So like I said before, it's not a set nine to five at all. It's more of just more of just an ongoing process that's become part of my life. But it's been pretty rewarding so far.
Devin
That's awesome. Okay. I think maybe the next place we go from here is maybe in a direction that's like if someone wanted to do something similar to you or like a role for maybe another Web Three project, what recommendations or what would you suggest that they do to get prepared for this role or what they should be good at? Maybe we can go in that direction.
Tyler Caffey
So what they should be good after looking for a role similar to mine or like in Web Three in general.
Devin
I would say let's tackle it. I think you being able to speak from your own personal experience is going to be best, but maybe we can get more general after that, let's say ahead of community or ahead of growth for another type of Web Three project. What are the core skills that you think are going to be needed and what should someone really expect if they wanted to get a job very similar to yours?
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, so I would say some of the skills that you need communications for sure. You have to be able to communicate, you have to be able to write well. You have to be able to articulate important ideas and kind of dumb them down and water them down a little bit so that the masses can understand. You have to be cognizant of the fact that you have to look at the perspective of the community and sometimes it's hard. I know everything that's going on in the background. I know what we're doing. There's, things that we're planning for the future. So how do I keep everybody engaged without giving it away? How do you drop the candy and you sprinkle the candy on the ground so they follow it, but without giving away the full surprise? It's difficult. And then you have to think about a lot of different perspectives of stakeholders in the company and how you want to communicate to them. So it's a lot of deep thought process and communication. And then having a knowledge of Web Three, I'm by no means a blockchain dev. I couldn't tell you how to code a smart contract. I'm not a coder now I know enough because I have to, but I don't know how to actually do it. And so there's a lot of misconception that to work in Web Three you have to be this blockchain guru that can build the next bitcoin. And you don't have to be able to do that. So there's a lot of skills that translate directly over from Web Two to web Three, because at the end of the day, the projects, as we call them in web Three, are companies, and they need the same things that Web Two companies needed. Now, does it look a little bit differently? Absolutely. I mean, I'm sitting here with a bull head on, so it literally looks different. But the way we communicate is different. We just send each other gifts sometimes to communicate, which would never happen in corporate America.
Devin
And I'd love to ask this in another more punchy way so that our listeners could get it in a little bit different of a perspective. So maybe one thing that I could ask is if you were tasked to train another head of community growth, what would you give them in a crash course to get fully up to speed in one to three months?
Tyler Caffey
Yeah. Learn discord. Learn about discord Bots. Learn about different ways to communicate and learn the Ins, and just learn Discord. Learn the ins and out. That's where a lot of your community lives. And then twitter. Twitter is a skill that I'm still working on all the time. But yeah. Web three lives on Twitter, lives inside of Discord. And then a lot of the other social medias, which are obviously integral to growing anything and marketing anything is a learning process for a lot of Web Three. Still, because of the narrative that we have to push and kind of the reputation that Web Three has as a whole. So definitely learning all types of social media. And then I would say get a basic knowledge, at least of the blockchain. Like, there was a couple YouTube videos I watched. Literally, I was like, this is the blockchain, and this is a block, and this is that goes to the next block. You have to have an idea, because if you're going to lead people in a community and the goal is that they don't necessarily have to worry about all that, you have to have a basic understanding. So definitely learn about the blockchain, learn about the technology of NFTs, because if you're going to be in a company that's trying to solve the problem of why this technology is great for people and solves problems of Web Two, then you have to have that knowledge and understanding. So I would say those things for sure. And then I'm not fluent in really any other languages, but it can't hurt to know some other languages. I'm pretty good at Spanish. I can hang. I can hang for sure. I can read and write. I don't know all of the vocab. I don't know all of the words, but I understand. I used to be really good at it, but that was back in high school and college. But I just don't know all of the words. But I'm learning Japanese now, too. I just started this week. I'm excited for that. So I don't even know I don't know if I can say I'm learning Japanese yet, but I started this week.
Devin
That's cool. So to kind of summarize, in my sense, it's good at the tools. Discord and Twitter are kind of going to be your wheelhouse and something you have to be super comfortable with. Yeah, the other thing you mentioned was just to be able to simplify things and take things that are going on in the project and relay them almost like in an announcement or in a very succinct way to the rest of the community. You also touched on the ability to take what's going on behind the scenes and what the community should know and be able to understand, I guess, like, what to tease what is coming up soon, that you may not be able to talk yet, but to plan an event around to help everyone know and for it to have its biggest impact. One thing that you didn't touch on that I think may be good just to touch briefly is where, if there's anything would you direct someone if they asked you, how can I get good at the actual speech, the actual tone, the actual type of communication that I need to have to speak with a large amount of people? Is there anything that you have from your own personal experience that kind of got you good at that? I have a couple from mine, but I'd like to just hear your opinion.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, so I like to read, so there's definitely some books that I could recommend. One book that I love is called Never Split the Difference, and it's a book about negotiating, so it's not necessarily about articulating knowledge, but that's a really good one. It's by a guy who is hostage negotiator for the FBI, and he translated those skills over to the business world. I've read it like six times. I love that book. I've read the Lean Startup, so there's books that I would read. But honestly, it's the only course that I think was truly helpful to me in college. I really don't think and I'm not saying that college isn't important for me, really. The one course that I remember really helped me was business communication. So taking that course was awesome because it opened up a lot of flaws and revealed a lot of flaws that I had in my communication skills and specifically in writing. So I think that was huge. So I don't really have somewhere to point for that. I could find something and recommend it, I guess, after. But that was where I really learned and I absorbed all of that because I could tell how important it was at the time.
Devin
That's awesome. And for everyone listening that's never split the difference. By Chris Voss I looked that up. And then the other book, the Lean Startup by Eric Reese. R I yes. Okay, cool. That's awesome. I guess, like speaking from my own experience, just to add a little here, I got good at communicating because, like I said, biochemistry major through lab reports. I had like three or four labs every week that I had to write reports on.
Tyler Caffey
Sounds awful.
Devin
It is pretty awful. It's a lot of writing. But it got me really good at almost like putting myself in someone else's shoes, like a Ta or professor is going to be reading this. And if I don't get the core ideas through in a very concise manner, they're not going to really get it. And that's going to lead to not a good grade or whatever. I would say that's up there. Maybe another thing, just the last thing we can touch on while we're on this topic is like speaking around resources for communication. Who do you think actually does a good job with business communication or something like that? My mind goes to kind of for my upbringing where I hang out to entrepreneurs. I think people who really do it good are like elon. Obviously, people used to, I guess, negative a little bit because sometimes he stutters or says but how thoughtful he is and how succinct his communication is, is really good. I also like kind of a little bit less known. I think Brian Chesky is pretty good at airbnb. I really think his design mind really helped him communicate things in a new way that helps people use their right side of the brain. I'm a very logic type person, so getting me into more of a trying to see colors and design and everything else is not how it works. But I often find him whenever he communicates, he does that?
Tyler Caffey
It's a really good question. And he named some really good ones. Who do I really like? I mean, I like Gary, obviously. I think he's really good. And he was kind of like how I pulled to Gary because in some of his videos, he's like, just go to somebody and be like, I'll write 50 emails for you for free for a week and I'll do it for free and I'll show you I'm the best employee ever. So I kind of did that because I told the believers team. I was like, yeah, I'll do this for free. I literally had just watched the Gary Vee video of him talking about it, and so I used that to try and leverage getting the opportunity, and it worked. I turned out to be paid from the get go. But I don't know, maybe that was I don't know. I did say that. I'm like, yeah, I'll work for free. So Gary, I think, does a pretty good job of being super creative. He's incredibly engaging when he talks, so I think he's a really good one. And this is maybe controversial, so I hope this doesn't rattle too many feathers, but I like Dave Fortnoy. I like that he's not afraid to go against the grain and be like, this is what I think, and these people are attacking me and I'm going to attack them right back right here. I just think that the way he communicates is very interesting. I don't have that kind of in your face personality that he does at all, but I think some of the things he does is pretty interesting and the way that he communicates and it's on a completely different level than a Gary. So I kind of try to find people that are successful in doing so, but to me, those are the people that are being true to themselves and just being passionate about what they are. I don't think you could find more polar opposites from like an Elon and Gary and Portnoy and some other people about how they do what they do. They're really just being themselves to the nth degree, to the most that they can and then just projecting that and they all truly just believe in their own vision and what they're doing. So I don't know. I don't know if I went off the deep end there, but I would say those guys cool.
Devin
Yeah, definitely no deep end, definitely not ruffling any feathers. We're all good. I like to keep an open mind and both of those people, in terms of where I'm at, totally agree with you and everything you said. So maybe as we wrap up here, you touched on something really interesting with Gary Vee and maybe this can be kind of like the final thing we're talking about. And it's like, okay, I think I know what you're going to say because you've already hinted on it a little bit once or twice already. But let's say I'm someone who could really see themselves as head of community or someone that's really doing something very similar to what you're doing for Bullyverse, how would you walk them through or maybe give some suggestions on how they would get that role?
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, it's interesting because for a lot of jobs that I think you're going to get, and especially in the market that we're in now, how do I want to say this for me, I didn't set out and say I want to be a community manager. I want to lead a community. That's not really how it happened. I just was offering this advice. But looking back, I would say offer some sort of value before you ask for something. So I get people that pop into discord all the time. They open a support ticket and they're like, I want to work for your company. I've been following believers for so long and I can see right there how long they've been in the server, and it's like 15 minutes. Okay, so A, you're lying off the bat. So I actually have a funny story to tell after this, but yeah, so I would say do your research on a project, show somebody that you care a little bit. Don't just pop in and start talking about yourself and oh, I've done this. See maybe if there's an issue that they have and say, hey, I think I saw this, I noticed this, you know, I had this idea and no, you don't want to give away all of your ideas off the bat and then just let somebody run and take them and that's kind of part of the game. Like it's possible that you have to try and use an idea or a solution as leverage to get your foot in the door and hopefully that doesn't happen, but it's not an impossibility. Yeah, I would say definitely get involved and engaged in a community first. You're not going to lead a community likely if people in the community don't know who you are. So I would get involved with a community that you like, I would find a community that you think that you can provide value to for whatever reason you think that may be. And then I would offer throw some solutions out there, throw some advice or offer to do something I really believe in give to get as a philosophy. So I wouldn't just pop into a bunch of discords and say, hey, I want to be your community manager. I guarantee you that the success rate of that is probably the same of winning the powerball. It's unlikely. So it's going to be for me it was a lot of right place, right time was part of it. But I would say don't get discouraged by no's, definitely just keep grinding and trying to show value to a community because if you're really right for the job and it's a unique job being the leader of a community, then the community will want you to do it. So I would just get involved, just to summarize, get involved with some communities, do your research on that community. Don't just be popping in every discord saying you want to work for them and then offer some real value to the community, whether that be through making content about the community, whether it be doing some live streams of some of their stuff or anything like that. I think honestly, now that I'm talking about it, making content on a community could probably be really powerful as a foot in the door because everybody's looking for content. So I think that honestly, now that I'm saying it, that might be a good idea. Make some content, get to know the team, show some value. And when you think that you might deserve the chance to ask for the opportunity, then do that nice.
Devin
And I don't want to let you off the hook. You said you had a funny story for the person who says they love Bullyverse but they've only been in the server 15 minutes. But I wanted to say before you got into that, I thought it was poetic that you said that. Basically the guy who likes Gary Vee, their message was jab, jab, jab, right hook. Don't do any right hooks. And for anyone who doesn't know Gary Vee's terminology, it's like give, give, give, and then ask. Don't just ask without having giving any value first.
Tyler Caffey
Exactly. Yeah. 100%. You have to give to get. I truly, truly believe in that in almost anything you do. And you're going to give to people that don't give back. You're not always going to get the get. It's not always a one plus one equals two type thing. But the way I look at it is if you give to 100 people and 50 of them end up helping you out on the back end, you're probably in a good spot. So the story is not about a person popping into discord. It's actually a lot better than that. And it's one of those things that sometimes I tell people and they crack up, and sometimes I tell people, and they are like, all right. But I think it's one of the most absurd things of all time. This is back in, I don't know, February. We log into a meeting in the morning with the leadership team and morale. He goes, do you know this guy? This guy? I'll just say, this guy. We'll call him Greg. His name isn't Greg. Do you know this guy, Greg? And I'm like Greg. Who? And he tells me, and I'm like, yeah, I definitely know Greg. And he's like, well, you just messaged me on LinkedIn, like, asking for a job. And I'm like, what? So to rewind, it was like, I don't know, maybe six weeks into me being full time. A lot of my friends knew that I started doing part time stuff with Believers in October of 2021. But this is, like, six weeks after I really joined. So this is, like, mid February. We were getting ready to go to Lisbon for an event, so we were promoting that. And so one of my buddies was like, dude, this is the coolest thing ever. I want to do what you're doing. What should I do? Where do I start? I was like, do you know anything about NFTs of the Blockchain? No, I don't know anything. Like, all right, we'll start there. Okay, start there. I sent him some videos on the Blockchain and NFT, and then this is the next morning. He spam sent this message to all of these founders of NFT projects, and he's like, I've known about NFTs and Blockchain for years. I'd love to do this and that, and my friend, and for Believers that he sent to our team, yeah, you just hired my friend. So do you have any similar jobs that he's doing that are just, like, sitting around? I'm like, Dude, I cannot believe that he sent that message. And I was talking to Greg, and I'm like, what did you think? I was going to sign on to a meeting one day in a 15 person company at the time be like, oh, what do you know? What are the ODS that you hired one of my good friends from growing up that lives ten minutes from me in a company where I'm the only US employee. Right. It was crazy. So definitely don't do that. Don't say, hey, you hired my friend. Can you hire me? I would not do that. Definitely provide some value. But yeah, it's just a funny story. He's a great guy. I love him. It's just kind of like, dude, you're nuts.
Devin
But yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And what I often find is figuring out what not to do often is more important than actually figuring out what to do. So I think with that, Greg was a good way to wrap it up.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah. Don't be Greg. Unless you are Greg, then be you.
Devin
Cool.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah.
Devin
I think maybe lastly, Tyler, maybe where we can end off is what else is going on with Bullywors? What's the big thing you want to shout out or plug, whether it's Bullyverse or not.
Tyler Caffey
Yeah, so I'll say for us, we have a lot of really cool stuff going on. So just to remind people, we're building games on real engine, and we just released it's the holiday season. We just released a holiday landscape in our game. So our game is about killing zombies and everything, so it doesn't exactly translate, but it's kind of funny. The whole landscape is now Christmas trees and candy canes and snow and all this stuff, and there's like this dark kind of Christmasy music that plays in the background. So it's definitely really cool. We just debuted it to our community yesterday, so we'll be promoting it a lot. But if you want to get in the holiday spirit, I think we're the only Web Three game out there that's doing something like that, so it's really cool. Check it out. For sure. And then, yeah, we got multiplayer coming soon. We got some cool stuff coming. So definitely would love if anybody listening wanted to tag along and follow us on our journey and really to come play our games. We would love that. Come play the game.
Devin
Right on. And with that, I think we'll close out everyone, check out Bullyverse, what they're doing, follow them on all socials. Tyler, it was a pleasure to kind of get you on here and to really tell your story. I feel like I learned a lot from a ton from this, and I know if I did, everyone listening probably learned just as much, so yeah, man, just saying thanks for this. I really appreciate the time.
Tyler Caffey
No, thank you, man. I mean, Devin, this was awesome. I love doing stuff like this, and I think Web Three really needs good people to get, obviously, the industry where it needs to go, and I think what it can provide to people is so amazing. So we need good people in Web three. So don't be afraid of what the news says about Web Three. There's a lot of really good companies that are building amazing things out there, so don't be afraid to take the risk. But, Devin, thank you so much for having me and even just asking me to be on it's truly an honor. This was awesome. And hopefully we can do it again sometime.
Devin
Of course, Tyler. We'll be talking to you soon.
